How to build a SaaS business in India Ft. Kuldeep Dhankar, Co-founder, Last9.io, Ex - Clevertap

Youtube URL: https://youtu.be/NnRN1V2COEQ

Host(s): Sandeep Jethwani, Co-founder, Dezerv

Guest(s): Kuldeep (Kip) Dhankar, Co-founder, Last9.io; Ex-CleverTap; ex-Microsoft/Nokia

Podcast Overview and Key Segments

Overall Summary

Kip Dhankar makes a clear case for building and selling SaaS in India. He explains why India is a large, supply‑constrained market where demand for software grows as wages and the value of time rise. He contrasts India-first vs US-first GTM choices, the true cost of discovering buyer intent, and why enterprise sales must align to company goals, not “friendly” UX. He details CAC, profitability, and ABM realities, and how to structure sales teams, compensation, and culture. He shares stories from Nokia, Microsoft, and CleverTap, including the SRK distributor moment and how to build narrative. He covers ESOPs, fair policies, and when to negotiate comp. He also shares personal finance choices that enabled risk-taking. The episode is a practical playbook on India SaaS markets, enterprise selling, community, and wealth creation.

Reference

• SaaS: Software delivered as a subscription over the internet.
• CAC: Customer Acquisition Cost.
• LTV: Lifetime Value of a customer.
• ABM: Account-Based Marketing; targeting specific named accounts with tailored outreach.
• System of Record: The authoritative data source for a domain (e.g., customers).
• ESOP: Employee Stock Option Plan.
• LTIP: Long-Term Incentive Plan; cash or stock-based, paid over time.
• MTTD: Mean Time to Detect; time to discover an incident.
• PMF: Product-Market Fit.
• COGS: Cost of Goods Sold; in SaaS, often excludes engineering costs.
• CDP: Customer Data Platform.
• GTM: Go-To-Market; how you sell and reach customers.
• CRO: Chief Revenue Officer.
• Secondary sale: Selling ESOPs to investors before IPO/acquisition.
• Delaware C-Corp: Common US company structure for startups.
• RBI: Reserve Bank of India; India’s central bank and regulator.
• PMS: Portfolio Management Service; managed equity portfolios.
• ETF: Exchange Traded Fund.
• XIRR: Extended Internal Rate of Return; annualized return measure.
• Account Aggregator: Indian framework to share financial data securely.
• System degradation: Partial failure where some users are affected, not a total outage.

Key Topics

India as a SaaS Market and Demand Drivers

Kip argues India is a large and growing market for software. Demand rises as wages and time value increase. Software becomes the lever to amplify people, reduce manual work, and meet goals. He cites Salesforce’s India revenue near a billion dollars and major enterprise cloud spend with AWS and Azure. India is “supply‑constrained,” not demand‑constrained. Buyers want outcomes, not software. If you learn how to sell empathetically and adapt to local buying norms, you can build large India-first SaaS companies. He notes most major SaaS categories have a local TAM of $100M+ and many Indian enterprises are ready buyers if the value is clear and tied to their goals.

Choosing US vs India GTM

Where you start depends on your networks, capital, and GTM maturity. If you have deep US networks and a seasoned sales leader, US-first can work. If not, India is cheaper and friendlier for early validation. The first hire in a new country is risky and expensive. Kip recommends Richard Rumelt’s approach: diagnosis, guiding policy, and coherent actions. Consider sales cost, discovery of intent, and hiring realities. Many founders can do both with focus: build early traction in India to prove PMF and fund learning, while selectively testing the US. Let your strategy follow your access and your ability to execute in-market.

Enterprise Sales: Value, Not Features

Enterprise buyers purchase capabilities that advance company goals. Friendly UX is not the winning argument. Sell top‑down. Align your value to the sponsor’s P&L and metrics. Use ROI models: e.g., CleverTap drove retention gains that reduced acquisition spend. At Last9, reduced MTTD saved money and protected revenue. Run disciplined discovery to quantify impact. Meet in person for key conversations. Big deals rarely close over Zoom. Identify the economic buyer, the users, and the signer. Multi‑thread the account. Build narrative, but keep the buyer the hero. Sales is about creating new value, not slick talk.

Discovering Buyer Intent and CAC Reality

The costliest thing in B2B is discovering intent. Enterprises do not broadcast what they plan to buy. Intent is embedded in plans, org changes, and triggers (e.g., regulator actions). You must run ABM: named account lists, LinkedIn targeting, roundtables, and presence at events. This is expensive, especially in the US. In India, it is cheaper and more concentrated, but still hard. Many public SaaS firms show high CAC and weak profitability. Be wary of unit economics that ignore engineering costs below COGS. Growth-only playbooks are fading. Profitability and efficient CAC matter.

Building Sales Culture and Talent

In India, sales suffers from a low-status bias. Kip argues this must change. At CleverTap, sales was paid the highest, with strong commissions. Hire for curiosity, empathy, and principle-led conversations. The best salespeople are interested in the customer, not in pitching features. They can tell a story and make the buyer the hero. Kip’s Nokia anecdote with Shah Rukh Khan shows how narrative can energize a channel. Train for top‑down value selling. Reward fairly. Title issues can be real; focus on role clarity and outcomes. Discipline and grooming signal respect and readiness.

Community, Collaboration, and Ecosystem

Kip praises the SaaSBoomi community and a non‑zero‑sum mindset. Sharing playbooks matters because India GTM has many “do it first time” challenges, like spending a $1M marketing budget well. Founders help each other with intros, tactics, and hiring. He cites peers from CleverTap and WebEngage who compete, yet share. This collaborative culture raises the tide for all. It also helps counter structural challenges like regulation, procurement, and enterprise sales cycles. Community-led growth is a real advantage in India and should be a deliberate strategy.

Career, Ambiguity, and Ownership

Kip’s career moved from entrepreneurship to Nokia/Microsoft, then to CleverTap and Last9. He made his first salary at 30. The key lesson: absorb ambiguity. If you take undefined problems off the table and own outcomes, you become valuable. He started with support, then built customer success, then sales. He took low-status roles first and earned trust through impact. Pay attention to timing: negotiate comp after you have proved impact. Reduce personal fixed costs (e.g., paying off a home) to expand your risk appetite and career options.

ESOPs, Compensation, and Wealth

ESOPs can be life-changing if the company compounds. But many employees misvalue options, or lose them due to short exercise windows. Good policy: extended exercise windows (e.g., years, not months), and offering a cash LTIP alternative for those who prefer certainty. Educate people on option value, FMV, taxes, and total dilution. Negotiate hardest after impact, not at offer time. If you believe in the company, optimize for equity. For founders, pay near-market only after cash break-even. Be ready to tune your salary down in lean times.

Personal Finance to Enable Risk

Kip favors a barbell: professional management for core wealth (PMS, ETFs, mutual funds) and illiquid startup equity for upside. He believes pros beat DIY over time. He maximizes PF contributions and trusts India’s strong regulatory framework. Keep liquid buffers and reduce fixed costs so you can take startup risk. Track returns (XIRR) and make allocation choices that stabilize your household. A safe core gives you courage to build bold companies.

Key Themes

India Is Ready for SaaS at Scale

India’s software demand is rising with wages, digitization, and regulatory pressure on reliability and compliance. Large enterprises spend tens to hundreds of millions annually. Many categories now have a local TAM of $100M+. International firms (Salesforce, Microsoft, AWS, Azure) already prove the market. The constraint is supply, not demand. Local players who understand buyers, adapt sales motions, and price to value can win. Quote(s):

• “Demand for software grows when people get more expensive and the value of time goes up.”
• “India is a supply‑constrained market.”

Sales Is Value Creation, Not Feature Pitching

Enterprise buyers purchase outcomes. Sellers must align to goals and quantify ROI. Start top‑down, involve users, and close with the signer. Meet in person for complex asks. Build narratives where the buyer is the hero. Curiosity and empathy beat polish. Quote(s):

• “Friendly software is great, but nobody buys enterprise software because it’s friendly.”
• “The purpose of sales is to create new value for the buyer.”

The Real Cost Is Discovering Intent

Intent discovery is the most expensive part of B2B. Enterprises hide buying signals inside plans and org charts. ABM, roundtables, and targeted content are necessary. US CAC is very high. India is cheaper but still hard. Profitability requires discipline and realistic unit economics. Quote(s):

• “The most expensive thing that a B2B company ever buys is discovering the intent of the customer.”
• “By the time you do this, it ends up being very expensive.”

Culture, Community, and Compensation

India needs a high-status view of sales. Pay sales like top athletes. Hire for curiosity and principles. Communities like SaaSBoomi reduce founder isolation and speed learning. ESOPs are powerful if structured fairly. Educate employees and offer LTIP alternatives. Quote(s):

• “My salespeople driving Ferraris? I’m already on my way to an IPO.”
• “In India you have to stick together… if you’re not a big enough group you’ll get eaten apart.”

Personal Finance Enables Entrepreneurial Risk

Reduce fixed costs and build a safe core managed by pros. This enables bold bets in startups and illiquid equity. Time comp negotiations after impact. Own ambiguous problems to rise faster. Quote(s):

• “The more ambiguity you are able to absorb, the more valuable you are.”
• “It feels unfair to pay yourself a very big salary [pre break-even].”

Key Actionable Advise

• Key Problem: Choosing India vs US as your first market
• • Solution: Match GTM to your networks, capital, and sales maturity
  • How to Implement: Audit your exec team’s networks; model CAC/Payback for both markets; run a 90-day pilot with 10 named accounts in each; decide based on meetings secured and pipeline created
  • Risks to be aware of: Misjudging CAC; weak first hires in new geos; cultural mismatch and long cycles
• Key Problem: Selling features instead of outcomes
• • Solution: Value-based, top‑down enterprise selling
  • How to Implement: Build an ROI model tied to the buyer’s KPIs; identify sponsor, user, signer; run deep discovery; meet in person for key steps; multi‑thread the account
  • Risks to be aware of: Overpromising impact; lack of user buy‑in; procurement delays
• Key Problem: Discovering buyer intent in large enterprises
• • Solution: Run an ABM program to surface and engage latent demand
  • How to Implement: Create a 100-account list; map orgs; track signals (regulatory news, tech incidents, hiring); target by role on LinkedIn; host peer roundtables; measure MQAs and meetings
  • Risks to be aware of: High cost with low signal; event fatigue; poor targeting
• Key Problem: Low-status view of sales and weak talent
• • Solution: Elevate sales with pay, path, and culture
  • How to Implement: Commission-rich plans; hiring rubric for curiosity and empathy; shadow calls; narrative training; celebrate wins publicly
  • Risks to be aware of: Poor quota design; burnout; title sensitivity
• Key Problem: Inefficient India marketing spend
• • Solution: Community-led growth and micro‑events
  • How to Implement: 10-city CXO dinners; customer councils; category reports; co-host events with partners; track sourced pipeline per activity
  • Risks to be aware of: Vanity events; low attendance; unclear CTA
• Key Problem: ESOPs misunderstood or lost due to short windows
• • Solution: Fair ESOP policy and education
  • How to Implement: Extend post-departure exercise windows (e.g., up to 7–10 years); offer ESOP vs LTIP cash choice; run ESOP 101 sessions; publish plan FAQs
  • Risks to be aware of: Cap table dilution; tax complexity; employee confusion on valuation
• Key Problem: Founder personal runway too short
• • Solution: Build a safe core to enable risk
  • How to Implement: Pay down high-cost debt; keep 18–24 months household runway; use PMS/ETFs for core; cap illiquid bets at a set % of net worth
  • Risks to be aware of: Over-illiquidity; market drawdowns; false sense of security
• Key Problem: Discount pressure on pricing
• • Solution: Price to value and document impact
  • How to Implement: Baseline current metrics; run joint value assessments; codify success plans; tie pricing to measurable outcomes when possible
  • Risks to be aware of: Attribution disputes; delayed impact; data access issues
• Key Problem: Remote-only enterprise selling stalling
• • Solution: Invest in travel for pivotal moments
  • How to Implement: Create a travel playbook; prioritize top 50 accounts; schedule onsite discovery and exec briefings; track close rates pre/post travel
  • Risks to be aware of: Cost creep; team fatigue; uneven regional ROI

Noteworthy Observations and Unique Perspective

• India is already a massive SaaS buyer. Salesforce’s India revenue is close to $1B; some Indian enterprises pay >$10M annually. Quote: “Bajaj Finserv… pays well north of $10 million a year to Salesforce.”
• The real moat is understanding India’s buyer and selling top‑down. Quote: “You buy enterprise software because it achieves organization goals.”
• CAC is dominated by intent discovery, not ads. Quote: “The most expensive thing… is discovering the intent of the customer.”
• SaaS accounting hides engineering in Opex, masking unit economics. Quote: “COGS is very weird… the most expensive thing you buy is engineering time and you’re not including that.”
• Career hack: absorb ambiguity and accept low-status work early. Quote: “The more ambiguity you are able to absorb, the more valuable you are.”
• Narrative matters in sales and channels. Quote: “Make them the center of their own personal legend.”

Companies, Tool and Entities Mentioned

• Last9.io
• CleverTap (WizRocket)
• Microsoft, Nokia, Windows Phone
• Salesforce; Microsoft Azure; Amazon AWS
• Slack, Microsoft Teams
• Zoho, Freshworks, Druva
• WebEngage
• LogiNext
• Bajaj Finserv; SBI
• RBI (regulator)
• Accel; Peak XV Partners (ex-Sequoia India)
• SaaSBoomi (community)
• CloudCherry (acquired by Cisco); Uniphore
• IDFC
• Dezerv
• Zomato, Swiggy
• CMU (Carnegie Mellon University)

Linkedin Ideas

• Title: The most expensive line item in B2B SaaS isn’t what you think
• • Main Point: Intent discovery beats ads and SDRs as the true CAC driver.
  • Core Argument: Enterprises hide buying signals; ABM and in‑person moments are essential.
  • Key Quotes: “The most expensive thing that a B2B company ever buys is discovering the intent of the customer.”
• Title: Why “friendly UX” won’t win you enterprise deals
• • Main Point: Value selling beats feature selling; align to company goals and ROI.
  • Core Argument: Buyers purchase capabilities tied to outcomes, not UI polish.
  • Key Quotes: “Nobody buys enterprise software because it’s friendly.”
• Title: Building SaaS for India: a supply-constrained opportunity
• • Main Point: India’s demand is deep; local GTM and empathy are the edge.
  • Core Argument: Rising wages and time value drive software adoption; India-first works.
  • Key Quotes: “India is a supply‑constrained market.”
• Title: Rethinking ESOPs: extend exercise windows and offer LTIP choice
• • Main Point: Fair ESOP design builds trust and wealth; educate and offer alternatives.
  • Core Argument: Short windows destroy value; employees need clarity and options.
  • Key Quotes: “If you must exercise within 6 months… they didn’t want to give you ESOPs.”
• Title: The career unlock: absorb ambiguity, accept low status, own outcomes
• • Main Point: Fastest growth comes from taking undefined problems off the table.
  • Core Argument: Impact first, then negotiate; this compounds trust and responsibility.
  • Key Quotes: “The more ambiguity you are able to absorb, the more valuable you are.”

Blog Ideas

• Title: India vs US GTM for SaaS: a decision framework
• • Main Point: Use networks, CAC modeling, and pilot signals to choose or run both.
  • Core Argument: Strategy = diagnosis, policy, actions; avoid defaulting to US-first memes.
  • Key Quotes: “Do a good diagnosis… make a clear policy… set up coherent actions.”
• Title: A practical guide to intent discovery in enterprise SaaS
• • Main Point: Build ABM to surface latent demand; use triggers, events, and exec access.
  • Core Argument: Intent is hidden; roundtables and in‑person beats spray-and-pray.
  • Key Quotes: “Enterprises don’t advertise what they intend to buy.”
• Title: Value > Features: the enterprise sales playbook for India
• • Main Point: Sell outcomes, quantify ROI, and multi‑thread top-down.
  • Core Argument: Align to goals; price to value; close in person for complex asks.
  • Key Quotes: “You buy enterprise software because it achieves organization goals.”
• Title: Designing fair ESOPs in India: policy, education, and alternatives
• • Main Point: Extend exercise windows; offer LTIP cash choice; teach option value.
  • Core Argument: Fair policies build loyalty and wealth; avoid 6‑month traps.
  • Key Quotes: “ESOPs can be life-changing… treat them like a high-probability lottery.”
• Title: The founder’s money stack: build a safe core to take bold risks
• • Main Point: Use PMS/ETFs and PF for core; keep runway; place upside bets in startups.
  • Core Argument: Professional management beats DIY; safety fuels ambition.
  • Key Quotes: “Let professionals manage your money… so you can take risks with your life.”